drupal

In this episode, Mike Anello and Mike Herchel dive into a casual conversation covering a wide array of topics. They start by discussing the concept of a podcast with almost no effort required and the mystery of Stephen's involvement. The conversation then quickly shifts to Florida Drupal Camp, mentioning its impressive 16 uninterrupted years, the increase in attendees, and how fun it is. They touch upon single directory components in Drupal, their importance, and intricacies like CSS styling, schemas, and Experience Builder. The discussion also includes insights into popular Drupal events like Florida Drupal Camp, Drupal Dev Days, and the upcoming DrupalCon. They infuse humor and personal anecdotes while engaging in thoughtful technical exchanges and playful banter.

For show notes visit: https://www.talkingDrupal.com/cafe003

Mike, widely recognized by his Drupal.org username "ultimike," is a prominent figure in the Drupal community with over 15 years of experience as a developer, educator, and community leader. As the co-founder and vice president of DrupalEasy, a Florida-based training and consulting firm, he has been instrumental in shaping the careers of countless Drupal professionals through comprehensive programs like Drupal Career Online and Professional Module Development .(drupalcampnj.org, nedcamp.org) Anello's contributions extend beyond education. He has been deeply involved in the Drupal ecosystem, serving as a core contributor to the Migrate module, co-maintaining several contributed modules, and actively participating in issue queues and documentation efforts . His leadership roles include membership in the Drupal Community Working Group and the Conflict Resolution Team, as well as organizing the Florida Drupal Users' Group and Florida DrupalCamp for over a decade .(The Drop Times, nedcamp.org) As the host of the long-running DrupalEasy Podcast, Anello provides insights into Drupal development, community news, and interviews with key contributors, fostering a sense of connection and ongoing learning within the community (DrupalEasy). His dedication to mentoring and community building has made him a respected and influential voice in the Drupal world.

Mike is a seasoned front-end developer and a prominent contributor to the Drupal community, with over 15 years of experience in web development. He is best known as the lead developer of Olivero, Drupal's default front-end theme, which emphasizes accessibility, modern design, and user experience. (ImageX) In addition to his work on Olivero, Mike serves as a core CSS maintainer for Drupal and is the creator of the Quicklink module, which enhances site performance by preloading links in the user's viewport. He also has amazing calves. They're the size of small children. Rumor has it that his vertical jump is over 4.5 inches! He has also contributed to the introduction of Single Directory Components (SDC) into Drupal core, aiming to streamline component-based theming. (The Drop Times, herchel.com) Beyond his technical contributions, Mike is an active community leader. He has served on the Drupal Association Board of Directors and is a primary organizer of Florida DrupalCamp. (Drupal) As a speaker, he has presented at various events, including EvolveDrupal, discussing topics like the future of Drupal theming and the Starshot initiative, which seeks to make Drupal more accessible to site builders. (evolvedrupal.com) Professionally, Mike works as a Senior Front-End Developer at Agileana, where he continues to advocate for accessibility, performance, and the open web. (evolvedrupal.com) He shares his insights and experiences through his personal blog at herchel.com, contributing to the ongoing evolution of Drupal and its community.

Discussion Topics:

• The Best Podcast Idea Ever
• Florida Drupal Camp: A Legacy of Success
• Single Directory Components: Getting Started
• TD Cafe: The Podcast Name Debate
• Deep Dive into Single Directory Components
• Experience Builder and Component Integration
• Custom Themes and Single Directory Components
• Design Tool Integration
• CSS Variables and Component Architecture
• Template File vs Render Array
• CSS Preferences: Plain CSS vs Post CSS
• Top Drupal Events
• Concluding Remarks and Personal Plans

Mike Anello - DupalEasy ultimike

Mike Herchel - herchel.com mherchel

Jira is an incredibly popular project management and issue tracking tool and is very flexible and adaptable to project workflows and can be further enhanced with the extensive application ecosystem that surrounds the product.  In a recent project, we used Maestro AI to supercharge a Jira workflow to offload external participant feedback loops to Maestro and let Maestro AI determine which feedback loop to use.

After weeks of listening, prompting, and pattern-spotting, we’re entering a new phase. The big questions are becoming sharper. The conversation is shifting—from what might be to what must be true.

Our early exploration surfaced a wide range of motivations, risks, and hopes for a Drupal Site Template Marketplace. The signal was clear: there’s strong belief in the potential—if we build it in a way that strengthens the ecosystem, not fragments it.

As part of this shift from the breadth of exploration and to the depth of early structure, we’re moving to a biweekly share out cadence. This Share Out #5 update highlights what’s emerging from Slack Prompts #5 and #6, insights from Survey #3 on Governance and Fairness to inform first drafts of the Lean Business Model Canvas and Governance Framework—early scaffolding for what’s to come.

From Divergence to Convergence

In design thinking, there’s a natural rhythm between divergence—where we explore widely—and convergence—where we begin to shape and prioritize. We’re now entering that second phase.

The goal is not to lock down answers prematurely, but to begin assembling the scaffolding that can support real-world testing, feedback, and evolution.

We’re asking:

• What makes a template worth trusting?
• What makes one worth paying for?
• What kinds of governance and community signals need to be in place from day one?

What We’re Hearing: Trust, Value, and the Shape of a Marketplace

Standards Build Trust

In response to Slack Prompt #5, contributors agreed that establishing baseline quality, accessibility, and transparency standards is essential.

Automation was broadly supported—but not blindly. There’s growing recognition that automated checks are necessary but not sufficient, especially for more nuanced requirements like semantic markup or keyboard navigation.

Most scanners will find 200 security bugs in Drupal and maybe 1 is real. Human review is still required.”

“Let’s at least show the automated results transparently and let buyers decide.”

Contributors are also thinking ahead about user expectations:

Paid listings should absolutely meet higher standards—users will expect it.”

These insights inform the governance framework’s approach to certifications, self-attestations, and recurring review cycles for paid listings.

What Makes a Template Worth Paying For?

Slack Prompt #6 helped unpack the value exchange at the heart of the Marketplace. Why would someone purchase a GPL-licensed template?

The answer: time savings, trust in the “official” source, and ease of setup.

The confidence that comes from knowing the template came from an official, trusted source like the DA is huge."

"One-click demos for themes... that’s my #1 trust signal.”

Participants also cautioned that separating the template from hosting or support could confuse non-technical buyers, especially those coming from SaaS ecosystems.

“Too many hosting choices at signup may mirror Mastodon’s ‘pick a server’ confusion.”

This feedback is pushing us to consider default hosting pathways, bundled services, and better “first-use” experiences.

Fairness, Recognition, and Governance

Our third community survey zeroed in on values: fairness, recognition, and trust.

Contributors emphasized the importance of clear expectations and governance guardrails—especially when money enters the picture.

“Revenue must also support the ecosystem—modules, infrastructure, DA.”

Many participants supported the idea of tiered models, where certified templates provide extra confidence:

“Even free templates should meet basic accessibility and security requirements if they’re hosted on Drupal.org.”

Recognition also matters:

“Templates should be rated based on feedback… great to know why someone considers a product to be 1 or 3 stars.”

That insight is helping shape how we design review systems that are credible, transparent, and helpful—without opening the door to spam or bias.

Early Structures Taking Shape

Informed by three surveys, one RTC session, and six slack discussions worth of community research combined with competitive research and discussions with Drupal’s intellectual property attorney, the Marketplace Working Group is now in active development on two core artifacts:

• Lean Business Model Canvas
  Mapping how the Marketplace creates, delivers, and shares value—across contributors, agencies, end users, and the Drupal Association.

• Governance Framework (Draft)
  Outlining submission criteria, listing types, maintenance expectations, enforcement paths, and contributor recognition.

This scaffolding is not final—it’s a living structure meant to evolve through our continuing research, feedback and community review. Nonetheless, it does feel exciting to see it all start to take shape!

What’s Ahead

• Pilot Planning: Testing incentive and governance structures in collaboration with DCP and other agency participants in RTC #2 and beyond.

• Governance Draft: A public request for comment (RFC) on the governance framework will launch this summer.

• MVP Quality Standards: Defining a small, automatable set of checks for accessibility, security, and licensing for free templates.

How You Can Stay Engaged

💬 Join #drupal-cms-marketplace on Slack
Each week, there's a new prompt to explore a key question as we define this Marketplace.

🎧 Listen to Talking Drupal #504 
On this week's podcast, we discussed the vision, opportunities, and challenges of creating a trusted, high-quality Drupal Site Template Marketplace that supports adoption, contributor incentives, and community values without compromising open-source principles.

Thanks to all who are continuing to shape this work with insights, critiques, and care. What we build next will depend on the strength of the scaffolding—and the people who show up to co-create it.

In early April, 2025, I was a guest on the Talking Drupal podcast discussing Back-to-Basics, an idea I had to get more beginner-level presentations at Drupal events as a way to better support (and retain) our newer community members. As I am currently a bit overcommitted, this, regretfully, is not something that I have the bandwidth to lead.

I do feel that the idea, and getting it up and running as soon as possible, is a good one that can contribute greatly as one solution to the declining pool of Drupal developers that will sustain us into the future. So, here is my call: I am looking for someone inspired by the growing need to attract and retain Drupal newbies who is interested in taking the lead with the idea, adding their flair, and moving it forward.

As an incentive, know that I've talked with plenty of people who are willing to help, including the folks from the Drupal Open Curriculum Community Initiative. In addition, I'm more than willing to provide assistance, make introductions, and help where I am able to ensure success. 

Genesis

The idea for Back-to-Basics came from one of our Drupal Career Online alum during our weekly office hours. It was shortly after Florida DrupalCamp 2025 that the alum asked me if "there were any good Views-related sessions" from the event that they could watch. The answer was "no," unfortunately, and over the next few days this bugged me more-and-more. How are we expected to grow the community with new developers and contributors if our events offer little-to-nothing for them?

Goal

The goal of Back-to-Basics is to make it easy for Drupal event organizers to include solid beginner content for their new-to-Drupal attendees. The strategy makes available 6-8 Drupal pre-prepped event presentations that can be delivered by a vetted pool of experienced Drupal presenters. The presentations will be readily available to any Drupal event organizers along with the names of willing presenters. 

A sustainable solution

As a developer of curriculum, I know how challenging and time-consuming it can be to not only develop, but also (and, perhaps, more importantly) maintain training materials. Creating, maintaining and then donating 6-8 45-minute Drupal event presentations is a big ask. However, It also occurred to me that finding 6-8 Drupal trainers and organizations who would be willing to create and/or donate and maintain a 45-minute presentation in exchange for some promotion makes a bit more sense. This was quickly validated by the first 4 trainers that I spoke with.

The final element is ensuring that the actual presentations serve to not just educate, but inspire. It is critical then, that every presentation should be delivered by the best presenters available at each event. As the old adage says, we have only one chance to make a first impression. The most experienced Drupal developers and presenters providing beginner content is the kind of impression we want to make to newer Drupalists whom we want to get excited about Drupal. It just feels right. Again, this idea was validated by every single one of the experienced presenters I approached. 

Challenges

I have identified two main challenges that will need to be overcome:

1. Available presentation slots at Drupal events. Not many Drupal events have the luxury of open rooms or slots in their schedule. Putting some priority on these beginner sessions would need to be part of the event planners’ insights in that it would not only be in our community's long-term interest, but contribute to growth of their event in the future, if they made room for beginner content.
2. Presenter/session selection. Presenters who participate in the Back-to-Basics program (or develop their own) shouldn't be penalized for presenting beginner-level content when it comes to session selection. If the maintainer of a core subsystem wants to present beginner-level content, that shouldn't count against them if they are proposing an advanced session as well, in the normal flow of session selection for the same event. 

Is building Back-to-Basics your bailiwick?

If you are inspired, and considering making a go of leading the charge on this, I am sure you have some ideas on how to proceed.  Some fuel for thought; here are the basics of what I envision you'll need to do:

1. Reach out to Drupal trainers to confirm their participation. (I can help with that!)
2. Determine the list of 6-8 beginner-level topics that should be covered (the Open Curriculum folks can help with this!)
3. Develop guidelines for presentation slide decks, including promotion guidelines and common slides.
4. Figure out where the presentations will be stored.
5. Develop the list of Back-to-Basics presenters.
6. Develop an informal written agreement with trainers for presentation maintenance.
7. Work with the Drupal Event Organizers working group to help spread the word.

I'm sure you have more ideas to enhance the program, (like nifty t-shirts) and there will surely be some additional tasks as well, but I think this list covers the big ones.

Finally, know that I envision my role as that of a mentor for whoever decides to take this on. I'll be more than happy to provide guidance, answer questions, and make introductions.

Interested? Have questions? Connect with me (ultimike) on the Drupal Slack workspace or use our contact form. 
 

We’re excited to announce a big step forward for user experience in Drupal Core: the creation of the new UX Manager role within the core leads team. This is a foundational move toward UX-driven development, where user experience is embedded from the start, not added at the end.

Historically, UX responsibilities in Drupal Core were shared across different roles, often falling under product management. But in practice, UX input has often arrived late, focusing on small usability tweaks rather than shaping the overall experience.

By creating a dedicated UX Manager role, we’re making sure UX has a clear voice — from early feature discussions to final design decisions. This will help us build more intuitive, cohesive, and accessible experiences for everyone using Drupal. We’re also laying the groundwork for the future: supporting more UX practitioners to contribute to Drupal and from there, grow into decision-making roles, strengthening our design contributor community, establishing a stable UX testing process, and making onboarding easier for designers and researchers.

For now, this role will be co-led by Emma Horrell and myself, Cristina Chumillas.

Emma is the UX Research Lead for Drupal CMS and has shaped many aspects of the project through her work researching target audiences, testing features, and helping reduce “Drupalisms.” Her research expertise will continue to help us align Drupal with real user needs. Many thanks to the University of Edinburgh for supporting her continued contributions.

I’ve been the usability topic maintainer for years and currently serve as Product Design Lead for Drupal CMS and Drupal core Front-end Framework Manager. I’m looking forward to helping embed UX more deeply into how Drupal Core is defined, designed, and built.

This is just the beginning. If you’re interested in improving Drupal’s experience, join us in the #ux-working-group on Drupal Slack — and help us put UX at the heart of Drupal’s future.

Keeping your website looking consistent across all devices, browsers, and screen sizes is no easy task. 

Add in CMS updates, module changes, and third-party integrations, and the potential for visual issues multiplies quickly. Fortunately, there’s a solution: visual regression testing.